Brenda's Response: Part 3

            1.) What do you think motivated Lydia to run off with Mr. Wickham?

I think it was just immaturity and selfishness on Lydia’s part.   Lydia seems to be a very self absorbed girl who just goes about life doing what ever she wants with no regard at all for those around her.  On a whim she probably thought it would be fun to snag an officer, and in her warped mind she probably thought snagging Mr. Wickham would make her sisters jealous.   She never seems to think before she acts, she is impulsive, and manipulative and in general disrespectful to those around her.   

2.) How do you think Elizabeth handled herself with Lady Catherine? Putting your self in that time period, if you were in Elizabeth's shoes how would you have handled that situation?

Putting myself in any time period I don’t think I would have handled that situation as brilliantly as Elizabeth did.   Elizabeth is a character that is so great at saying what she means and sticking to her convictions no matter what and no matter who she is talking to.  She is so strong.  I love how she stayed true to herself, and how she answered Lady Catherine so directly yet without coming across as being rude or arrogant or disrespectful.  She just answered Lady Catherine matter of factly, and in doing so inspired me enormously.  What a prime example of how to handle those who intimidate us in our own lives.   I love the Character of Elizabeth.  She knows who she is and isn’t afraid of standing up for herself.  I would have been too shy to do what she did.  I would have buckled under the pressure of trying to think of what to say in the moment while being yelled at by someone who socially out ranked me.  But I must say I am very inspired by characters like Elizabeth (and Anne Shirley from Anne of Green Gables), and I always feel a bit more confident in myself after reading a character like this.  In times of strife I try to summon up my inner Elizabeth or Anne Shirley or Maria Von Trapp, and attempt to hold my ground with the bullies of the world the way they did.  

3.) What is your final impression of Mr. Darcy?

Mr. Darcy remains my favorite character of this novel.  I think Jane Austen gave us a Real Man here.   What girl doesn’t fall in love with him while reading this book.  Especially in part three where his true nature is revealed.   I still think my assessment of him from the question in part 2 is somewhat accurate, I do think that possibly he is awkward and somewhat socially shy especially when with a women he is attracted to.  And I think he is socially uncomfortable in large crowds of people.  But in part 3, It’s as if we were finally clued into his true nature, his personality softened and changed and became more relaxed, once he was at his home, with his sister, with his group of friends, it was at this point that we got to see who he Really was.  But WOW, Jane Austen gave us such a real and wonderful man in Mr. Darcy.  He proves in part three that he really deeply loves Elizabeth by showing her not just telling her but really living his love for her, even when he was given little hope that she would ever return his feelings.  He deeply loves this women, and no matter what, even if she may never love him, he still goes on to prove how he feels about her.  First the letter, ahh...that wonderful letter, and then he proves with actions like paying for Lydia’s rushed wedding, paying off Mr. Wickham, a man he dislikes so much, and bringing Mr. Bingley and Jane back together, all because Lydia is Elizabeth’s sister and to save her family from embarrassment.   I just think any girl so lucky to win the heart of Mr. Darcy would feel so protected, so cared for, so deeply deeply loved.   My final impression of Mr. Darcy is, strength, depth, protective, intelligent, self confident, a wonderful and real manly man. 

4.) Does the novel end the way you expected? How? Why?

Yes, and No.   Yes….because I feel like Jane Austen is taking us on a journey and she so brilliantly unfolds the story in a way that we are rooting for Jane and Bingley and Elizabeth and Darcy to end up together, and when they do it feels so right and satisfying that they are finally together, which means it did end the way I hoped and expected. 

But, No…..I only say no for a silly little reason….I felt like Jane Austen spent nearly 350 pages building us up to this climax of Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth finally getting together, but when the big moment came it almost seemed a little disappointing to me on some level.   It must just be the romantic in me that wanted more details, more written about his exact words when he proposed, did he get down on one knee, did they share their first kiss at this point etc...  When I was reading Chapter 16 for the first time I didn’t even realize Mr. Darcy had proposed again, ha ha ha.  I learned this when I started reading chapter 17.  So I went back and realized the big moment somehow slipped right past me.   So in this way I say no, the novel didn’t end the way I expected because I expected a bigger more wonderful, epic moment, romantic scene when they finally got together. (kind of along the lines of the Kira Knightly movie)  Instead I got a very subtle, understated, quiet scene, that I entirely missed the first time I read it and had to go back and re-read it again to catch it.  Ha ha ha, I told you it was silly.  

But I love how Jane Austen sums everything up for us in the very very end.  It just made me feel like everything was right with their world and I feel at peace now with moving on to the next novel. 

              

5.) One of the major themes throughout Pride and Prejudice is  marriage. Compare and contrast the different kinds of marriages throughout the novel.

Ok, here I go.  Marriage is presented to us in so many different forms in this novel.  Lets start with Mr and Mrs. Bennet.  They seem to be at a point in life when they are just tired and worn out and in Mrs. Bennets case very focused on getting her daughters married and out of the house.  But I worry about them.  Do they still have the love it will take to be happy after the children are grown and out of their house.  They seem to have the kind of marriage where they are two people living under the same roof but living completely separate lives. 

Then there is Mr. Collins and our sweet Charlotte.  Although Mr. Collins is somewhat annoying to me, I do think he chose wisely in his wife.  And I think in their own way maybe they are very happy.  I mean think of our sweet Charlotte, where was her life heading?  Nowhere.  She probably would have ended up a caregiver of her aging parents and then been completely lonely and alone in her older years.  But now look at her…she created a real life for herself.   She is married, she has a husband to care for and who seems to care for her, there will probably be children in her future, She socializes with some very rich people like Lady Catherine, whom she would have never had the opportunity to even meet had she not married Mr. Collins,  she has a home of her own to run, a garden to tend to, etc…by marrying Mr. Collins, she has created a wonderful and beautiful life for herself.  So although I do not think their marriage is based on love, I do think there in mutual respect, happiness, and a real friendship here. 

Then there is Lydia and Mr. Wickham, the worst marriage in the book.  This marriage is crazy.   It is not based on anything.  Not on love, or friendship, or mutual respect of any kind.  Theirs is an awful marriage, one that will forever be filled with unfaithfulness, hurt, upset, challenges, it’s not based on anything real, it’s superficial, and very sad.

Compared to Jane and Mr. Bingley's, whose marriage is based on pure sweet true Love.   I think their love was Love at first sight.  I think their marriage will be filled with happy times, loving moments, and sweetness.   Their marriage seems like it will be soft and quiet and gentle.  They are like sugar and spice and everything nice. 

And last, Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy, whose marriage I believe is also based on true love.  But, I feel like Elizabeth has the deepest most romantic, most passionate kind of love and marriage of all.  They built a foundation that is so strong, and so deep and completely unbreakable.  This couple has depth of knowledge of each other, and are truly deeply in love.

6.) Do you find the characters likable? Are the characters persons you would want to meet?

               Yes, Yes, Yes…..I really Love all these characters, and I would want to meet All of them in person.  I think Jane and Charlotte would be my best friends,  I think I would be friends with Elizabeth too and I would learn so much from her and would want to be just like her.  I think I’d have a huge crush on Mr. Darcy.  I think I’d love to help guide Kitty and Mary in a better direction than their sister Lydia went….I think these characters represent all the different personalities of the people we have in our own lives.  And although I don’t find all of them likable (i.e. Wickham, Lady Catherine…), I do find all of them interesting and well developed by Jane Austen,  and I loved every moment I had getting to know them. 

7.) What is the source of this novels immense and enduring popularity?

              Love…..  A lot of people in today’s world say “Sex Sells” Well, I am of the opinion that that is NOT true.  I believe “Love” sells, as evident by the immense and enduring popularity of this novel.  Love is something everyone wants and everyone needs.  As I go through life I realize that the only thing that is really meaningful, really worthwhile is Love.  Jane Austen has presented many generations of readers with this most brilliant story of Love.   This story is so pure and so well written.  We didn’t have to endure lust filled sex scenes, or curse words, and yet, it was the most heart touching and enjoyable Love story I have ever read.   I think Jane Austen touches peoples hearts with Love and that is why this beautiful work of hers has stood the test of time and why it never goes out of style.  In my opinion Love Sells. 

            Closing Thoughts From Brenda……….Well I guess this is the end of Pride and Prejudice.  I am sad to be ending this one.  It was my first ever Jane Austen Novel.  I feel a real sense of accomplishment having made it through the whole book.  I feel like I entered the wonderful world of Jane Austen, and I so enjoyed my stay.  I am going to miss all these wonderful characters.  On some weird level they have become my friends.   I want to especially thank Rachel and Laura for taking this journey with me.  I have enjoyed reading and commenting on your answers in our blog.  I am so thrilled to be a part of this book club.  It is a really special part of my life now.   I'm  looking so forward to our next Novel.  Till then, Happy Reading and Happy Holiday’s.  

Rachel's Part Three Response

First, I want to say thank you to my fellow bookclubers my Mom and my aunt Laura. I had such a blast reading this book with you both and discussing it along the way. I love this bookclub and although I am very sad we are wrapping up Pride and Prejudice, I cannot wait and I am very much looking forward to the next Austen novel!!!!!!! Ok onto the response answers.... 

1.) What do you think motivated Lydia to run off with Mr. Wickham?

I think what it boils down to is immaturity on her part, which Mr. Wickham saw and took full advantage of.  Lydia, to me, is a very naïve character who is rather impulsive.  She demonstrates this by running off with Mr. Wickham and not even thinking twice about how the repercussions from it will affect not only her reputation, but her families. It almost felt like Lydia was considering this whole ordeal to be more of a joke than the serious matter, which it was for a lady during that time period. She was also probably flattered and excited someone from the militia was paying attention to her. She probably found a thrill in running off with a man in uniform. I’m still a little uncertain what Mr. Wickham’s motivation was. We all know by this point he is a scoundrel and is really only motivated by money, but when he first ran off with Lydia I wonder if he really thought her family was going to pay him off to marry their daughter, which is what ended up happening (and technically Mr. Darcy paid him off).  I still don’t think I fully get why he choose to run off with Lydia. Hmm…

2.) How do you think Elizabeth handled herself with Lady Catherine? Putting yourself in that time period, if you were in Elizabeth's shoes how would you have handled that situation?

I absolutely loved Elizabeth in this part. Elizabeth is such a strong force to be reckoned with.  She has such a strong sense of character, and she knows exactly who she is and will stand up for what she believes in. For women in those days this was definitely not the norm.  In this particular conversation with Lady Catherine I think Elizabeth took a stand and made sure Lady Catherine knew who she was and she wasn’t going to back down that easily. I didn’t think she was rude or disrespectful to Lady Catherine, just stern with her so she knew she wasn’t going to budge her decision and get walked over by her.    

If I put myself in that time period, and in that situation, I honestly think I would just cower down and wouldn’t stand up for myself. I am definitely more of a shy and quiet person and do not like to make a fuss about things, even if I disagree with people. Now saying that about myself, I absolutely loved reading this part and came out of this chapter feeling that this book changed a little piece of me. I thought I don’t want to be the type of person who doesn’t stand up for herself I want to be like Elizabeth Bennet who stands true to who she is and doesn’t get pushed around even by very intimidating individuals, such as Lady Catherine. Whenever I come into situations where I need to stick up for myself I just need to channel my inner Elizabeth Bennet. J

3.) What is your final impression of Mr. Darcy?
I think in the last part of the novel we really saw the true core of who Mr. Darcy is.  At the beginning of part three when Elizabeth was visiting Mr. Darcy’s home the readers got a glimpse of a softer more vulnerable Mr. Darcy vs. the rude stand offish Darcy we have seen in the past. We find out what a sweet, loyal, protective, generous, and kind person Mr. Darcy is. Throughout the rest of the novel you find out how he went around and made his wrongs into rights, for example confessing and bringing Mr. Bingley back so he and Jane would have a second shot.  One thing that I pulled away from part three that had only been hinted at prior was how romantic he is.  I must have read chapter 16 over and over again, especially the part when he told Elizabeth that she must have known he did everything only for her. Mr. Darcy has such a subtle yet strong romantic side to him that really came out in part three. It was such a thrill to read this book and see firsthand as the reader how this character of Mr. Darcy unfolded. Austen has created a remarkable and memorable character, and Mr. Darcy has truly become one of my favorite literary characters, ever!!!  Just goes to show sometimes first impressions are not always right. J

4.) Does the novel end the way you expected? How? Why?
As I was reading, I really felt as if Austen transported me into the world of early 19^th century England and into the lives of the characters in Pride and Prejudice. So as you are reading you start to feel as though these are your new friends and want to see everything turn out for them. Austen does not disappoint readers at the end of the novel. I loved how Austen ended the novel, especially the way Austen wrapped up everyone’s story with the last chapter. I can’t tell you how many times you end a novel and wonder what happened to these characters that you have read about and almost feel a part of their world or the author gives you only a little closure to the end of the novel. I, along with most of the readers out there, was so happy to see Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth end up together. One of the more romantic love stories out there.

5.) One of the major themes throughout Pride and Prejudice is marriage. Compare and contrast the different kinds of marriages throughout the novel.
Austen introduces us to so many diverse and unique characters in the novel, so that could only lead to different types of marriages between the characters.

Mr. Bingley/Jane Bennet: They have a very simple romantic love story between them. You find yourself as the reader rooting them on because they are both good genuine individuals you want to see be happy. However, their relationship is somewhat common and lacks a certain amount of spice and adventure.

Mr. Darcy/Elizabeth: You just don’t read, hear, watch, see love stories like this in novels or television/movies anymore.  As a reader you read about their love story and watch it grow. It goes from them forming the wrong first impressions, to confronting their pride and prejudices between/for each other, and then into this love and romance that eventually leads them into marriage. I think this quote from the novel, when Elizabeth is writing back her aunt, sums up their marriage and fondness for each other and what a wonderful life/future they will have, "I am happier even than Jane; she only smiles, I laugh."

Mr. Collins/Charlotte: This marriage is an example of a couple starting out barely knowing each other and getting married for different motivations (Mr. Collins: for his reasons he stated to Elizabeth and Charlotte because she was reaching the point of an “old maid” type age for back then). I think they were strangers basically when they got married and are going to discover if they are compatible or not as they live the rest of their lives together.  

Mr. Wickham/Lydia: If there was ever a couple who married out of impulse and greed this is the one. Lydia is still very naïve and Mr. Wickham only love is money and perhaps the things he uses it on, like gambling. As the readers find out in the last chapter they never stop asking for money and have no shame in asking for it. I would definitely say their marriage is one brought together by an impulsive action and perhaps loveless. I don’t think they have as much joy as Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy have together or even Jane and Mr. Bingley for that matter.

6.) Do you find the characters likable? Are the characters persons you would want to meet?
I found the majority of the characters likable. Austen really builds up her characters and fully develops them into a way which makes them very relatable. Austen gives us so many different and diverse characters throughout the novel. Focusing on the Bennet family alone there is such great differences among the sisters and Mr. and Mrs. Bennet.  As a reader you can see you family, friends, acquaintances, co-workers, etc., personalities among the different characters.  There are characteristics in each character that the reader can relate to their lives, which also makes Austen’s characters memorable and classic. 

OhMyGoodness!!! I wish I could just get transported into the world of Pride and Prejudice and meet them all, the good and the bad. If I had to narrow it down from everyone I guess on the top of my list would of course be Elizabeth, I would love to be able to find out what makes her tick and have such a strong independent personality. I would love to pick up a few pointers from her on building up that strong character and just embody who she is.  Also, of course, Mr. Darcy (part three version/aka the sweeter version hahah) everything about Mr. Darcy fascinates me. He is the ideal man that I assume many women hold close to their hearts/minds and match up future boyfriends/potential husbands too. He would definitely be one of the characters I would love to meet. But ultimately, I would love to be placed into the Bennet household and be there throughout the novel, just like that one movie, Lost in Austen.  

7.) What is the source of this novels immense and enduring popularity?

Austen wrote this novel over 200 years ago, and yet even in today’s world, which is amazingly different than the world was when she wrote this novel in, people can relate to her novels. I truly believe Austen had a unique gift. She was able to understand basic human emotions and bonds we form with one another and beautifully translated them through her characters in her novels. Austen touches upon these basic human emotions and needs that people of all ages, races, cultures, languages, and time periods can relate to and will continue to relate to in the future. Austen touched upon emotions such as love, betrayal, rejection, acceptance, desire, friendship, loyalty, and family to name a few.  I think that is the key to why her novels have this enduring popularity. She also has a unique ability of transporting the reader into the world she created and makes them feel as if they are a part of it and these are their new friends. For me personally, I have read very few novels that have actually moved me, shook me in my core, and changed me for the better. Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice is one of the very few novels that have touched my heart and I can truly say I am a different person for the better after reading this novel. If you have not read this novel yet I HIGHLY HIGHLY Recommend it!!!! It is truly beautiful, and now my absolute favorite novel!

Discussion Questions for Part Three

1.) What do you think motivated Lydia to run off with Mr. Wickham?

2.) How do you think Elizabeth handled herself with Lady Catherine? Putting your self in that time period, if you were in Elizabeth's shoes how would you have handled that situation?

3.) What is your final impression of Mr. Darcy?

4.) Does the novel end the way you expected? How? Why?

5.) One of the major themes throughout Pride and Prejudice is marriage. Compare and contrast the different kinds of marriages throughout the novel.

6.) Do you find the characters likable? Are the characters persons you would want to meet?

7.) What is the source of this novels immense and enduring popularity?

• Also, feel free to discuss any closing thoughts you may have about Pride and Prejudice.

• Reminder: If you want to do an optional movie review, post the review by November 17th. You can do the review on any version you would like, just make sure you make note of which version you watched.

Happy Reading!!!!

Rachel's Part Two Response

1.      This part of the novel could be titled “The Turning Point” do you think this accurately describes part two? Explain your answer.

I think this is a very accurate description of part two; one could even pin-point “the turning point” to chapters 11-13. The turning point for me started with Mr. Darcy’s proposal to Elizabeth and becomes more prominent once Elizabeth was going over the letter that Mr. Darcy gave her explaining her accusations made against him. Before these events happened Elizabeth viewed Mr. Darcy as this rude, stuck-up, arrogant person and now after these events she views him in a more positive light. She understands his character better, which in turn shapes and changes her outlook/opinion of Mr. Darcy, Wickham, and everyone else around her.  Elizabeth is not the only one who changes their opinion, after the proposal Mr. Darcy reflected on what she had said to him and realized he was letting pride get in is way of having the person he cared for make an inaccurate conclusion about events that have taken place. As a result of the turning point, Elizabeth becomes aware that she had been blinded by her prejudices and Mr. Darcy realizes he had been blinded by his pride.  It was a point in the book where they both realized their faults which in turn change the course of the novel. AHHHH Love Jane Austen!!!  J   

2.      What were your first impressions of Mr. Wickham? After you read Mr. Darcy’s letter, did your feelings change?

My first impression of Wickham was he is a very charming man who has had bad luck in the past. Here is this poor guy whose father died and then went to live with the Darcy’s and when Darcy senior died he was basically turned away from really the only family he had left. As a reader I was very sympathetic towards is character and wanted to see him succeed. However, I also got the feeling as I was reading, I wasn’t getting the full story there was a hint of suspicion there. I first got this feeling when he all of a sudden lost interest in Elizabeth to go after Miss King who had a good fortune. It just seemed weird since he and Elizabeth seemed to really hit it off.

But after reading Mr. Darcy’s letter…My Goodness, my feelings towards Mr. Wickham definitely changed. You find out how manipulative Mr. Wickham was being towards everyone he came in contact with. You find out he is really only interested in coming across money and he was will stop at nothing to get it, he has no shame when it comes to that. I did find it funny, and this connection may not make any sense, but it’s kind of funny how this whole novel is focused on the women finding a man with good fortune to marry and then here is Mr. Wickham looking for a wife to marry who has a good fortune. Even after reading Mr. Darcy’s letter, when I think about Wickham, I do not think of him with disgust. I think of him as being a lost soul who is going about everything wrong.

3.      What is your impression of Mr. Darcy at this point in the book?  What did you think about Mr. Darcy’s proposal to Elizabeth?

OOOOO Mr. Darcy!  My Love for Mr. Darcy only grew more after reading part two. I think, as the reader, we are really starting to see Mr. Darcy’s true personality. We are starting to see a softer and vulnerable side of his character, which is something up until this point we have not seen all that much of.  Now, I love Mr. Darcy dearly, however I will admit he needs some work on his proposal, especially when it is to a woman loves very dearly. He could have been smoother with his proposal because on one hand he told Elizabeth how much he loved her and then on the other hand he told her his love for her went against his will, reason, better judgment, and character. I can guarantee you there is not a single woman who would want to hear those negative things combined with love when she is getting proposed to.  And GOOOD Grief, Elizabeth has some balls. Hahaha. She really makes it clear that she would never marry him.

I also thought it was interesting that Mr. Darcy was so in love with Elizabeth, despite her position/social status in life, but wasn’t Mr. Bingley and Jane in the same boat? So why would Mr. Darcy stop the potential marriage between Mr. Bingley and Jane, but still go forward and propose to Elizabeth when it is kind of the same situation. Now I understand from his explanation to Elizabeth after his proposal, and in the letter he gives her later on, that he felt that Jane’s feelings were less than Mr. Bingley’s, which is one  of the reasons he stopped the possible marriage between them but he also mentioned that Jane’s family/social class also made him stop Mr. Bingley. I guess my question to you gals is why do you think it was ok in Mr. Darcy’s mind for him and Elizabeth, but it wasn’t ok for Mr. Bingley and Jane? Hmmm… Sorry that question is kind of confusing, but it has me puzzled.

But overall I fell more in love with Mr. Darcy after part two. I have a feeling we will see even more layers of him in part three, sweeter/kinder layers.  

4.      What did you think about the letter Mr. Darcy wrote to Elizabeth after he proposed to her?

I think it was very honorable of him to step out of his comfort zone and write the letter to Elizabeth. After he proposed to her and realized the prejudices she had formed about him was all wrong, he put his pride aside to make sure Elizabeth knew the truth about the events she accused him of. I think the turning point for Mr. Darcy’s character started when he wrote the letter to Elizabeth.

Side Note: Did you gals think it was really romantic when he gave her the letter? Haha I completely did!! It is hard to explain, but I thought it was so refreshing to see a man as prideful and closed off as Mr. Darcy had been to then turn around and show a vulnerable side and lay out his feeling in this letter to her. I just found it to be one of the more romantic parts of the novel, and it is such a simple event.

5.      What is your first impression of Lady Catherine De Bourgh? Does her real life impression match all the hype Mr. Collins gave her? 

When you read how Mr. Collins describes her you think she is this lady who is mentoring and taking Mr. Collins under her wing and showing him the ropes. Mr. Collins seems to having nothing negative to say about her.  When you meet her she is this straight forward no B.S. kind of lady, who is not afraid to give her opinion on things, even if it is rude. For example, she was putting down Elizabeth’s upbringing, family, and “lack of” accomplishments when she was having a conversation with her. I found her to be very snobbish and condescending when we, the reader, finally meet her in person. Let’s just say she isn’t my favorite character.

Brenda's Response: Part 2

  

This part of the novel could be titled “The Turning Point” do you think this accurately describes part two? Explain your answer.   I think this very accurately describes this part of the book.  I think Elizabeth is finally seeing Mr. Darcy in a different light, which is really making her think about weather or not she has dramatically misjudged him, thus a turning point in her perspective of who she thought this man was.   I think Mr. Darcy finally gave into his feelings of love for Elizabeth thus a turning point for him.  I think Jane has allowed herself to do things maybe she normally wouldn’t have done in the hopes of love with Mr. Bingley thus a change in her.   A lot is happening in this part of the book that are major changes so I would say yes this is the turning point of this story. 

      

       What were your first impressions of Mr. Wickham? After you read Mr. Darcy’s letter, did your feelings change?  I think my first impressions of Mr. Wickham were that he was an ok sort of fellow, kind, considerate, humorous, attentive.  He came across as a nice guy, but I don’t think I always trusted him.   I don’t know why exactly, but something in Jane Austens writing of this character always made me sort of question him….Like maybe he was just too nice to believe.  I worried that he was a little to slick and little to sickeningly sweet.  Then after Mr. Darcy’s letter WOW, Mr Wickham--- can of worms spilling all over, ----an what a worm this guy is.  It seems he is only interested in money and getting it by whooing the ladies who have it.    

      

    

       What is your impression of Mr. Darcy at this point in the book?  What did you think about Mr. Darcy’s proposal to Elizabeth? Ok here we go……My impression of Mr. Darcy at this point in the book is like WOW….I knew I was going to like this character and I was right.   I’m going to side track here a little to tell you guys an idea I have been tossing around in my head about Mr. Darcy.

       I have a theory about Mr. Darcy which I think I will share right now instead of waiting till the end as I had originally planned to.    What do you think of the idea that Mr. Darcy is Shy?   I was thinking in part one that possibly his abrupt social behavior was possibly due to feelings of shyness.  Shy people tend to come across as self absorbed, rude, arrogant.  They don’t mean to but that is the impression that others get of someone who is shy.   As I was writing my answer to part one’s Mr. Darcy question I started seeing these words….rude, arrogant etc….and thought Hummmmm, I bet he is just socially awkward and shy around girls and doesn’t always do or say the right thing.   Then now in part 2 when he proposed in such an abrupt way, just practically shouting out to her his feelings all in one big long take no breaths kind of way, well then it dawned on me, he is a really intelligent, wonderful guy who is just shy and awkward around girls and doesn’t know exactly how to act with them.  I personally thought his proposal was adorable albeit a bit abrupt and a little over honest about her social standing and family, but still somehow just very sweet.   Although I agree with Elizabeth in not accepting his proposal based on where things are in the story at this point.   But I soooooo look forward to part three.   I have the feeling there is going to be some real changes, especially after his letter, and especially since she is now viewing him differently, and especially because all the pieces of the Mr. Darcy puzzle are now coming together for her. 

      

       What did you think about the letter Mr. Darcy wrote to Elizabeth after he proposed to her?  Oh wow the letter.   First off may I say once again Jane Austen writes with such class and brilliance and she has not failed us in part 2 of this book with her proper use of the English language.  Then just when you don’t think it can get any better she writes this letter that her Character Mr. Darcy is to have written to Elizabeth to explain his position on the issues she had trouble with when he proposed to her.  At this point Jane Austen seems to enter a whole new WONDERFUL world of writing, because his letter to Elizabeth is worded and written so extremely well that we now have this beautiful glimpse in to who Mr. Darcy really is, how he really feels about Elizabeth and what kind of person he is.   I can tell from his letter how much he loves Elizabeth because at every point where he may offend or hurt her apologizes or warns her of the attack that is to come.  For example how he starts his letter “I write with no intention of paining you or humbling myself…” later in the letter he warns her of another possible offensive moment saying “…even by your father….pardon me….it pains me to offend you.”   He remains respectful and caring towards her feeling while very intelligently addressing the offenses she detests in him which to me just make him even more interesting and wonderful to read.  After the letter I really got the feeling that this is a strong, honest, caring man, who is not use to pouring his emotions out, but is willing to risk it all for Elizabeth.  I think his letter was wonderful and I think Elizabeth is finally starting to see the real man that dwells in Mr. Darcy.    And she is finally getting a taste of how protective of her he would be, because she can see how protective he was of his father’s good name, his friends father, Mr. Bingley his good friend, and his sister.   We got our first taste in this part of how deeply Mr. Darcy does care about the people he really does Love.  And how he will protect those he loves at all cost.  Mr. Darcy is coming across to me now as a real man, strong on the outside, sensitive and loving on the inside.   

      

       What is your first impression of Lady Catherine De Bourgh? Does her real life impression match all the hype Mr. Collins gave her?   My first impression of Catherine is snooty, very high class, extremely rich, not real emotional, doesn’t understand love, or compassion, judgemental, somewhat rude.   From the flowery way Mr. Collin talked about her I expected her to be rich and even a bit snooty, but I somehow thought she would be more sophisticated.  After he talked about her all the time in part one I thought she was probably a grand dame of some sort but he flowered her with such praise I thought maybe she would be a more caring and sophisticated.  But as it turned out I think she is just a real snob with no understanding or concern of those she deems below her social class.   

Discussion Questions for Part Two

1.      This part of the novel could be titled “The Turning Point” do you think this accurately describes part two? Explain your answer.

2.      What were your first impressions of Mr. Wickham? After you read Mr. Darcy’s letter, did your feelings change?

3.      What is your impression of Mr. Darcy at this point in the book?  What did you think about Mr. Darcy’s proposal to Elizabeth?

4.      What did you think about the letter Mr. Darcy wrote to Elizabeth after he proposed to her?

5.      What is your first impression of Lady Catherine De Bourgh? Does her real life impression match all the hype Mr. Collins gave her?  

Laura's response: Part1

1.) The novel begins with one of the most famous first sentences in literature, "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife" (pg. 5). What does this sentence mean and how does it set the tone for the novel?
To me this sentence means.......He's got the money now he needs to find a wife.  To me it seemed very important to have a wife but not necessarily a wife that he loved, and status plays a big part.

 2.) What are your feelings about Mr. Bennet? Is he a good father? A good husband? A good man? A positive or negative figure?  
I have no feeling one way or another about Mr. Bennet.  He appears to be a good father.  A father's role  in those days was so different then a father's role of today.  As a husband, he appears to be alittle abrasive with his wife.  I don't think Mr Bennet is overly positive or overly negative. 

3.) First impressions of Mr. Darcy. Good? Bad?
My first impression of Mr. Darcy was how rude he was, he also gave off this air about him as though he was better than every one else.

 4.) What is the role of women in the text? How are mothers represented? What about single/independent women?    
A womens role was to become a wife or she will become an old maid, with no worth.  Mothers appear to be obsessed with getting there girls married off to men with money, even if her daughters did not love the man.  I can understand the obsession because if her daughter did not get married by a certain age they would be worthless.  In those days being single and independent was not a womens lot in life, to me it appeared to be looked down upon from society, family, friends.  Being a women in those days had to have been difficult, they had no rights, few ways to care for themselves,  could not own property and if not married they were looked down upon.


5.) What does love and marriage mean to Mr. Collins?
At first love and marriage meant nothing until he found the right girl and fell in love.  He was willing to help the Bennet's family out by marring one of his daughter's but there seem to be no love there, just willing to help him out.   

6.) What do you think of the language Jane Austen uses throughout the novel? For example, “remember where you are, and do not run on in the wild manner that you are suffered to do at home.” (Ch. 9 pg. 43) What does this quote mean?  
The language has been difficult to read, sometimes a sentence does not make sense with the words she uses.   Sometimes she uses too many words to describe something simple, is this how they talked in those days or is this how a writer writes there stories.  I think it is both.  Sometimes i would read a sentence like page 43 and think why would you use the word suffer and why can't you just say this with more simple words.  I noticed as i read on that she does this alot and i better get use to it.

Brenda's Response: Part One

Opening Comments from Brenda…Wow this is really fun.  Thank you so much Rachel for putting this blog site together, and for getting everything all organized for us.  You have done a beautiful job!!!.  I was counting in my head today and have figured that so far we have been introduced to at least 18 characters in this book.  WOW!!!  As someone who likes to write stories, I find it mind boggling that she was able to do this, yet somehow Jane Austen does it so effortlessly.  I felt instantly sucked into her world, hanging out with her friends.  What an amazing writer Jane Austen is, and how exiting it is to be reading one of her masterpieces.  Another mind blowing reality for me is thinking about how long ago this story was written, over 200 years ago, and yet it has a way of touching me so deeply even now in these modern times.  To me this is a very relatable story, with interesting and relatable characters, and I am loving every second I spend in this world that Jane Austen created. Ok, now on to the questions…

  
1.) The novel begins with one of the most famous first sentences in literature, "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife" (pg. 5). What does this sentence mean and how does it set the tone for the novel?

WOW, I’m so excited, question number one….YAY!!!… Oh no, I am already scratching my head.  Hum….Okay, off the top of my head, I would say that the word “Want”, if I am understanding it correctly, could be exchanged for the word “need”???   So then this quote, to me means:  “It is well known that a rich single man must be in need of a wife”.   I think characters like Mrs. Bennet actually prey on this kind of knowledge. She gets herself all in a whirl knowing that there is a single rich man in town.  Mrs. Bennet seems to make it her business to make sure that the wealthy Mr. Bingley takes a wife, and she’d like it to be her daughter Jane.  So maybe in the eyes of someone like Mrs. Bennet, if you’re a single wealthy man, you are bait for women like her, and her wanting to make you a married man.   Now how does it set the tone for the book?  Hum….Thus far in the book, we have met at least 2 wealthy and single men Mr. Bingley, and Mr. Darcy. And we are seeing how the love lives of each of these wealthy men is unfolding.  This opening sentence really does seem to set the tone for the book, because the book so far is about, marriage, wealth, social class, and the potential to “up” your social class through marriage.  Lets hope my answers get a little more intelligent as we go along.  

2.) What are your feelings about Mr. Bennet? Is he a good father? A good husband? A good man? A positive or negative figure?

My first impression of Mr. Bennet is that he is the head of the Bennet household, although, Mrs. Bennet seems to set the tone in the house.  He seems amused by his wife and her extreme desire to see all her daughters married.   He seems to tease his wife with sarcasm.  He seems to be intelligent, and somewhat of a bookworm because he spends a lot of time in his library (unless library is old talk for bathroom, ha ha ha, Hmmm…anyway…). He seems somewhat withdrawn from society and finds his younger daughters silly and foolish.  But he seems to think more highly of Jane and Elizabeth.  Over all, to me, he seems to be a good father, and he really loves all these women in his life. He seems to be a supportive husband, yet enjoys a good laugh at his wife’s expense.   He seems to be a man of integrity, a positive figure that all the daughters look up to, and listen to, and turn to.   And although he and his wife seem to bicker back and forth, they seem to really respect and love each other too.   I think he’s a good father, good husband, good man, and positive figure.  (Now how many times did I use the word “seems” in this answer UGH…).  Onto the next…

3.) First impressions of Mr. Darcy. Good? Bad?

    The words I would use to describe my first impressions of Mr. Darcy are distant, removed, thinking he’s better than those who surround him, arrogant, direct, rude, protective, somewhat anti-social, opinionated, yet strangely attracted to a women he views as being way below his social status.  I think it will be interesting to see how Jane Austen unfolds these feelings he is having towards Elizabeth. You can definitely feel something going on between these two characters, with all the looks and snappy conversation between them.  I think this makes Mr. Darcy a VERY interesting character. My first impression is neither good nor bad.   I don’t think he is a bad person he just seems stern at this point, with definite opinions, guarded emotions, and he’s single, maybe lonely, and set in his ways. There is a lot of mystery in this character, and I look forward to getting to know him better as we read.  For me Mr. Darcy is my favorite character, the one I look most forward to reading about.  


4.) What is the role of women in the text? How are mothers represented? What about single/independent women?

Ahhhh…..The women……what different times Jane Austen writes about in view of women.  The “role” of women in this text seems to be marriage and running the homes.  They all seem to worry themselves about getting married.  The women’s place seems to be in the home.  The women seem to be completely dependant on the men in there lives and strive to marry “up” in order to have security and a home.  Love seems to be secondary to security.  The main mother figure, Mrs. Bennet, seems to me to be represented as a bit dramatic, but very, very concerned about marrying off her 5 daughters.  The thought of getting them married consumes her.   I question is it out of love and real care for her daughters or out of desperation to see them safe and secure, or is it a social appearance she wants to have the bragging rights to?  Something along the lines of my daughter married better than yours kind of thing?   To me the single women also seem to always be looking for a man who can support them financially, and after a certain age will settle for anyone and in the case of Charlotte.    I think they hope for romance and love but will settle for security.  On the other hand Elizabeth seems more independent minded and not willing to settle.  She turned down security with Mr. Collins because she didn’t love him.  I don’t see that the independent women like Elizabeth are really viewed differently than the more dependant ones like Charlotte, yet both exist in this story and are interesting to get to know.  I do like the overall aspect of the women running the home though.

5.) What does love and marriage mean to Mr. Collins?

In my opinion marriage to Mr. Collins means, Absolutely nothing emotionally. And, Absolutely everything socially and financially.  Although on some level, in his own flowery language way, he seems to desire happiness, but I question does he know what real happiness is?  Or, is he just spouting off the words he thinks those around him to want to hear.  I feel he would be thrilled with ANY women who would say yes to him.   He seems to me to be all about the appearance.  He always seems to be kissing up to his present audience.  His affections changed quickly from Jane to Elizabeth to Charlotte with no real emotional attachment for any of them, just flowery empty words.   He seemed more intent on pleasing Catherine De Bourgh and marrying because she suggested it than actually wanting to find the Love of his life. He treats Love like a financial deal.  I can’t wait to read what you guys think about this one.

6.) What do you think of the language Jane Austen uses throughout the novel? For example, “remember where you are, and do not run on in the wild manner that you are suffered to do at home.” (Ch. 9 pg. 43) What does this quote mean?

 

I LOVE the language that Jane Austen uses in writing this book.  It is so fun to get lost in her words.  I find my brain defining each word as it passes by, and almost feel honored, when I put the book down, that I have had the privilege of being a part of her world for a little while.  Although this makes reading this story very slow for me, I am thoroughly enjoying getting lost in the language of her time.  It all seems very proper.  As for this quote…I know Laura questioned the word “Suffered” and wondered why this word was chosen.  In this part of the story I think Elizabeth is talking to Mr. Bingley in the presence of her mother.  She seems to be telling him that she can read his character very clearly, to which he seems amused.  However Mrs. Bennet sort of reprimands Elizabeth for speaking to him in this manner.  As if she is embarrassed by her daughter a little bit.  She seems to be saying, do not run on at the mouth with your silly ramblings, here in this place of wealth and luxury, in front of this (wealthy) man, like you do at home. Do not subject these people, (we want to impress), with the ramblings we are forced to put up with from you at home.   

I think the word “Suffered” is used to just exaggerate Mrs. Bennet’s extreme displeasure, and it is Jane Austens way of showing a dramatic opinion of one of her characters. I think this is a good example of Jane Austen using the English language and making us really think as we read. Although in her time I wonder if this would have been an easy read, cause maybe they all talked like this in that time when she wrote this.   Where as now we have to (or at least I have to) really concentrate as I read in order to understand what is going on.   

Rachel's Response: Part One!

1.)   The novel begins with one of the most famous first sentences in literature, "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife" (pg. 5). What does this sentence mean and how does it set the tone for the novel?
This sentence not only is a great opening line and hooks the reader right away but it also does a great job in setting the tone for the novel. This opening line is basically saying that everyone knows (or at least women assume) if a man is single, and has a decent amount of money/fortune, he has to be in search of a wife to share that fortune with. It gives the impression that this is how everyone in society thought/believed life to be, especially women during the late 18^th/early 19^th century English society. One of the themes/tones throughout the novel is social status/wealth, which plays a huge role throughout the novel. The reader gets a sense of this right off the bat when Mrs. Bennet and Mr. Bennet talk about the new bachelor in town Mr. Bingley who is single with no prospects of a wife yet, and a great fortune of $4,000-$5,000 a year. Women during this period of time did not have very many options or paths to take and the only way to move up in society and secure their future is to marry above or with-in their social status. Side note: How sad is it that the main goal of marriage is to secure a future financially and marrying for love takes a back seat the majority of the time. Ok back to the my answer: Take the Bennet’s for example; we learn that because there is no male heir to take over the family land it must go to the closest male relative which is Mr. Collins. As soon as Mr. Bennet passes away their estate will be turned over to Mr. Collins and the rest of the Bennet’s will be left with nothing. So in order to secure their future it is essential that the Bennet sisters marry into a financially secure family and it is also why Mrs. Bennet is so obsessed with marrying off her daughters.

2.)  What are your feelings about Mr. Bennet? Is he a good father? A good husband? A good man? A positive or negative figure?
Mr. Bennet is a very interesting character. On one hand I find him to be very humorous/funny. He has a bite/wit about him that has a hint of sarcasm, especially when he is talking with his wife.  But on the other hand I feel like he takes a back seat to his family and at times he can be rather neglectant towards them.  He seems more annoyed and there is a certain lack of respect towards his wife, especially when it comes to Mrs. Bennet trying to find suitable husbands for his five daughters. Throughout the novel the reader can tell he has a special soft spot in his heart for Elizabeth and that he is very protective over her. You really get a sense of this in chapter 20 where he sides with Elizabeth over Mrs. Bennet whether she should marry Mr. Collins or not, even though if she accepted his hand it would have secured his family’s future.  The reader also gets a sense that he seems to be withdrawn from not only his family but society a bit too. Maybe he feels like he has disappointed his family by not having a male heir to pass the estate too and in turn will leave his family with nothing when he passes. As of right now my opinion of Mr. Bennet is still in the air. I have a feeling we will learn more about him as the novel goes on.    

3.) First impressions of Mr. Darcy. Good? Bad?
I get the feeling Mr. Darcy is like an onion. He has a personality type with many layers to him that one must go through in order to fully grasp and understand who he is.  It seems that my dear Mr. Darcy tends to not give a favorable first impression. People tend to think he comes off as arrogant, proud, reserved, and rude. Even with those horrible first impressions, there is something about him that really draws the reader into his character. You get hints that he isn’t just this stuck up guy as Austen takes us through Elizabeth’s and his growing relationship. He seems to keep an eye on her at all times and seems to genuinely care if she is ok or not. The reader gets hints of this while Elizabeth is staying at Netherfield and especially chapters 10-12. One can tell there is a spark between them but Mr. Darcy is holding back a bit because I think he does not want to bring any attention to the fact he is starting to develop feelings towards her, which may make him come off as uncaring or apathetic.

Sometimes first impressions aren’t always right; the layers are starting to unpeel! I am team Darcy!!!!

4.) What is the role of women in the text? How are mothers represented? What about single/independent women?
The overall/general role of women in this book is to get married and preferably marry into a higher social class to create a better life for one’s self.  Women in the early 19^th century did not have many options before them; they definitely were at a disadvantage. They were not able to move up and into the world as easily as men could. They could not go out and be career women, get the best well rounded education (and if they did an education it wasn’t the same as it is today for women), create their own fortune, or even have the same rights as men had. In all reality the easiest and only ways to create a different and better life for one’s self was to marry someone with decent wealth and social connections. The mothers in this book are definitely represented as having only one plan/goal and that is to marry their daughters to the most eligible bachelor and of a higher social class then them to secure their future. Elizabeth does break out of this mold. She is a very strong female character with intelligence, independence, wit, and follows her heart when making decisions. On the other hand you have young women like Charlotte who admits (in chap. 22) not necessarily believing in marriage or even liking Mr. Collins. But she goes through with it anyways to create a new world of opportunities for herself. Instead of love and romance Charlotte was looking for a comfortable home which Mr. Collins would provide for her.  I cannot even imagine being a woman in the early 19^th century it would have been so limiting to not be able to marry for love or go out there and become a Dr. if I wanted to or not having equal rights as men had.

 5.) What does love and marriage mean to Mr. Collins?
Mr. Collins has to be one of my least favorite characters! He is just flat out annoying, poor Charlotte. Ok now that I got that off my chest back to the question. I really think marriage means diddly squat to him. He proposed to two different women within three days and was thinking about marrying three different women within the time he came to visit. Obviously he wasn’t looking for a deep connection/love aspect with his future wife. Marriage seems to be almost like a business deal to him.  He doesn’t really care who he marries just that he marries someone. I swear I was screaming you idiot when he was proposing to Elizabeth and stating his reasons for marrying and then not getting the clue when she basically told him he doesn’t have a chance in H-E-double hockey sticks. Let us review his reasons for marriage shall we (found in chap 19) 1.) He believes it is essential for clergy men to set an example by being married, 2.) It would add to his happiness 3.) It was the advice/recommendation from his dear Lady Catherine de Bourgh (this seems to be most important to him, that’s kind of awkward) and 4.) As a result of him ultimately inheriting the Bennet estate he was going to try and find a wife among the Bennet girls. Hmmm… Would any girl jump for joy and say yes after hearing that speech? I would think/hope not. (except maybe Charlotte. Poor girl)

6.) What do you think of the language Jane Austen uses throughout the novel? For example, “remember where you are, and do not run on in the wild manner that you are suffered to do at home.” (Ch. 9 pg. 43) What does this quote mean?

I LOVE the style Jane Austen writes in and how she uses the language so flawlessly. It truly brings the reader into the story with her language and makes one feel like they are a part of it. Take the quote above for example; she is scolding Elizabeth while visiting Netherfield when Jane was ill. She really paints a picture doesn’t she? She uses colorful language which only sucks the reader deeper into her stories. Such a talented writer, I cannot wait to read all of her novels!!      

Discussion Questions for Part One

We came up with these six questions for Pride and Prejudice, part one. Answer these questions and feel free to ask your own question you would like the group to answer or write about other things you found interesting throughout part one.

1.) The novel begins with one of the most famous first sentences in literature, "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife" (pg. 5). What does this sentence mean and how does it set the tone for the novel?

2.) What are your feelings about Mr. Bennet? Is he a good father? A good husband? A good man? A positive or negative figure?

3.) First impressions of Mr. Darcy. Good? Bad?

4.) What is the role of women in the text? How are mothers represented? What about single/independent women?

5.) What does love and marriage mean to Mr. Collins?

6.) What do you think of the language Jane Austen uses throughout the novel? For example, “remember where you are, and do not run on in the wild manner that you are suffered to do at home.” (Ch. 9 pg. 43) What does this quote mean?

Blog Kick Off

Hello fellow book clubbers!
   
    Here is the schedule we came up with for our first book, Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice (Barnes & Noble Ed. ):

• Part One (chapters 1-23): September 15, 2010
• Part Two (chapters 1-19): September 29, 2010
• Part Three (chapters 1-19): October 13, 2010
• Optional Movie vs Book Review/and closing thoughts: October 27, 2010

    Feel free to submit any posts you would like to share with the group, related to the book, additional questions you would like to ask the group, or just something fun and random: please do!! This is a free flowing "living" blog.  It's not just a question and answer blog, feel free to post current life experiences and how they relate to the book at any time.  Feel free to post your thoughts as they come to you, remember this will not be graded.  We are definitely not limited to just the schedule set above. or the questions that will be posted before each part. Feel free to have Ah Ha moments and post what ever is on your mind.  Can't wait to start posting!  

Happy reading!!!