Brenda's Response to Mansfield Park

1.  What do you think of Fanny Price as the heroine of this novel?   

Fanny was okay I guess.  Of all the characters in this novel I like her the best.   She was in a position of being placed into a relative’s family at a fairly young age, and she learns to survive somehow within this new and very different atmosphere.  I think she did a good job of remaining pure and innocent.  I like how Fanny stayed true to her beliefs, and didn’t waver even when under great pressure by those around her, (like Tom, Mrs. Norris and Sir Thomas).  I also love how she didn’t give into Henry’s manipulations.  I guess in some ways I felt sorry for her but at the same time was rooting for her. I was happy there was at least this one character in this story that seemed to be honestly good, and have morals, and I like that she remains consistent throughout the book especially among this whole cast of character that certainly were not morally sound.  So overall she was okay. 

2.  What kind of role does family play in the development of individual characters?

I think they played a huge role.  It was family circumstances that originally brought Fanny to Mansfield.  It was her new family at Mansfield that made her who she was to become.  You wonder what would have happened to Fanny if she had not been adopted into this new family.   The stark difference between the Mansfield’s and the family she was born into play a huge role in the main theme of this and all Jane Austen’s novels, social mobility.  

3.  How did the Crawford's (Mary and Henry) affect the family dynamics?

They sort of swooped in and took hold of the emotions of the family.  Henry seemed to make a play for every young female in the family and Mary for the men in the family.   They waltzed in and seemed to really stirred things up for a while.   What I don’t get is… Why did they come in the first place?   Did I just miss that part?  I didn't care for either of these characters at all.  

4.  Why do you think Edmund is drawn to Mary?

Because sometimes guys are very, very stupid.  He was probably drawn in initially by her beauty, and seemingly sophisticated ways, but in the end it was the matter of her ugly manipulative selfish personality that made him FINALLY see the light about her. 

5.  Do you think Henry actually fell in love with either Maria or Fanny, or is he more of a player? 

I think Henry is a big scumbag, who only enjoys the thrill of a chase and is definitely a player.   He even says so….saying to Mary “…engaged or married women are safer therefore more fun…”  In his opinion Maria would be safe/easy because he knows no real attachment will form, it would all be fun fun fun for him with no commitment.  What a jerk!  Then Fanny was just a big game to him which he bragged about to Mary before he even started pursuing her, saying something along the lines of capturing Fanny’s affections will be for his “amusement” So NO NO NO….this guy is a scumbag in the worst sense of the word, and he has no understanding of what real true love is, he is just in it for the chase, then once he catches he’s done.  Of all the bad guys in the Jane Austen Novels we have read so far I despise this one the most, he is just pure evil to me.

6.  Should Fanny have given Henry a real chance? Or was she right to refuse his proposal?

She was definitely right to refuse his proposal.  Her relationship radar was right on track with this guy.  She seemed to sense he was up to no good, and she emotionally kept her distance, even jeopardizing her comfy home at Mansfield at one point (I think??), but she was right to refuse his proposal.  That would not have been a good life for her. 

7.  Edmund seems to always turn to Fanny for her input.  Why do you think her opinion is important to him? At what point do you think they fall in love with each other? 

Of all the Mansfield children Edmund seems to be the most sensitive and caring.   He and Fanny formed a close bond right from the start and were each other’s confidants and best friends basically from the moment they met and into their adulthood.  I think her opinion mattered so much to him because she was like him, she was also a sensitive soul, and definitely a kindred spirit to him.  I basically think they fell in love very early on, but I don’t think they realized it till much later when other potential love interest started entering their lives and became obviously all wrong for them.   Fanny and Edmund have a certain comfort level with each other that they share throughout the novel and only with each other.  He never reaches this comfort level with Mary,  and Fanny never feels it for Henry. 

8.  How does Mansfield Park compare to the other two Austen novels we have read? Do you feel like Mansfield Park is more or less complex then Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice?

Hmmmm…..I feel like Mansfield is VERY different then the other two novels we have read.   Sense and Sensibility seemed like a very likable innocent novel with intriguing characters and a likable story line.  Pride and Prejudice to me, was very romantic, one of the best love stories I have ever read, with extremely well written characters and story.    Mansfield to me was a lot less innocent then the previous two.  There was so much immorality and deception and manipulating going on that it made the story very unlikable to me.   I feel Jane Austen entered a much darker, sinful, place with this novel.  To me all Jane Austen’s novels seem very complex, mostly because they deal with so many characters, and so much is always going on.  But this time, Jane Austen seemed to want to tackle new almost forbidden topics, very sexual and immoral topics.  I wonder if in it's time this was considered a very scandalous novel.  

Something else I’d like to mention here, just because I don’t know where else to mention it is that while I was reading this novel it dawned on me how little respect Jane Austen writes her Father Figures with.   The Father in P&P was somewhat wimpy. The father in S&S died early on, but the father figure in that novel John Dashwood (the brother) was a very wimpy character in comparison to his bossy and over powering wife and he often crumbled and gave into her decisions.   Then in this novel the father figure is morally corrupt, running a horrible slave business behind all their backs, rarely home, and very domineering and or wishy washy when he is home.  I’m getting the feeling that Jane Austen didn’t have a very good father figure.  What do you think? 

9.  Which character did you relate most closely to in this novel and why? 

Oh Gee…….I honestly can’t say that there was any character in this novel that I related to.  I didn’t see myself in any of these characters.   In Pride and Prejudice I remember loving Elizabeth, I wanted to be more like her, I was inspired by her.   In Sense and Sensibility, I could relate to the older sister Elinor.  I guess Fanny was my favorite, Edmund was likeable enough, but ehhhhh……I just didn’t feel any real connection to the characters, or the story this time. 

10.  Do you think Mansfield Park is something of a morality tale, a story that has a sort of moral lesson in it? 

Mansfield Park seems to be filled with immorality in just about every character.   I think Fanny was meant to be the one shining star in this novel, the one constant, the one and only moral character.   But I think it is a story of incredibly immoral characters and story line.  I guess the moral lesson to be learned from this novel is to remain good like Fanny and to not waver from good.   I think Fanny was meant to be the moral compass among all the immorality around her.   So yes, I guess there is some sort of moral lesson within this story.  

11.  Would you recommend this novel to a friend?

I would recommend that everybody read ALL of Jane Austen’s novels.   There is a real feeling of accomplishment once you finish one.   BUT…… this one was definitely NOT my favorite, I don’t even know for sure that I liked this one.   It didn’t grab me from the beginning, it didn’t hold my interest, I found it hard to pick up and read, easy to put down, I found myself struggling to want to finish it.  Of the three we have read so far this is my least favorite.   So based on that, this would probably be the last on my list of Jane Austen books (so far) I’d recommend to a friend.   I only pray Emma is better.  But all that being said, I am still happy to have finished another Austen novel.   Ha ha ha....

Brenda’s closing thoughts:

Phew another Jane Austen novel complete.  We are half way through her novels now!!!!  I’m enjoying this book club so much!!!!!. 

I feel a little as if I cheated in this novel because I relied on the spark notes so heavily to kind of get me through this one.  It just seemed like I wasn’t sure I was understanding all of it, so I relied on the spark notes to keep focused.  That is probably my own fault, because I would put it down for long periods of time then forget what was going on, and rely on the spark notes to get me back on track.  Oh well, thank goodness for spark notes. They are a great tool to have if you haven't used them yet, they do help me. 

Well, it is off to Emma now.   I am looking forward to the new cast of characters and hopefully a novel that will capture my affections more than this one did.   

I'm looking forward to reading your answers, and hearing your comments. 

Till next time Happy Reading ladies!!!!!!

Rachel's Response to Mansfield Park

1.  What do you think of Fanny Price as the heroine of this novel?

To be completely honest, I wasn’t too impressed with Fanny as the heroine of this novel. I thought she blended into the background. She was very timid, wouldn’t stand up for herself, very passive, and in comparison to the heroine’s we have read about in previous Jane Austen novels she is a very weak heroine. That being said, she was a constant throughout the novel.  Everyone around her was immoral, immature, wishy-washy, greedy, or just down-right rude, where she stayed true to herself and didn’t get sucked into the behavior from others that surrounded her. I know that spark is in Fanny, (page 306, Chapter 35) when Edmund is pushing her a bit to reconsider Henry Crawford’s proposal. After I read that paragraph, I thought to myself, Fanny finally found her voice and showed us some of her spark I was hoping that was deep down inside of her. I loved that she knew Henry’s true character (a yucky person) and stuck to her guns in refusing him even though every single person around her did not support her decision and believed she should reconsider and accept his proposal. I admire her for it; it takes a strong person to stick to their beliefs, especially when everyone around them is telling them otherwise. After she had her ah-ha moment, she seemed to fall back into her passive, timid self until the end of the novel. I was a bit disappointed about that. All in all Fanny is not my favorite heroine of all time, she is no Elizabeth Bennett. However, I can understand where her character comes from seeing how she was treated throughout the novel. 

2.  What kind of role does family play in the development of individual characters?
Family plays a HUGE role in development of the characters throughout this novel. You can especially see how the role of family influences the character of Fanny.  Fanny was sent away at a young age by her mother to live at Mansfield Park with her aunt and uncle in hopes of a better life and being prepared for society. Fanny’s Aunt’s, Uncle, and cousins (minus Edmund) always made sure Fanny knew her place and always made her feel as if she was a burden and beneath them. This is probably why she is reserved and a bit timid.  As I was reading, I wondered how Fanny may have turned out if she would have just stayed with her Mother and Father. Towards the end of the novel I got my answer. You get a deeper look at how much family influences ones development when we were introduced to Fanny’s immediate family. The differences between Fanny’s upbringing at Mansfield and her siblings at Portsmouth are like night and day. Even though almost everyone was horrible to Fanny, at least she was brought up with structure, proper etiquette, and culture. Her siblings on the other hand were brought up in chaos, poor structure, and poor manners. You really see clearly how ones upbringing, and the role of one’s family, can mold an individual’s character through Fanny and her siblings.  

3.  How did the Crawford's (Mary and Henry) affect the family dynamics?
They affected the family dynamics in many, many ways. They shook up the lives of everyone at Mansfield Park. Mary manipulated Edward into falling for her even though they are not a right match for each other and she was pulling him away from Fanny. Henry is just a gross creep slim ball! He purposely chased after Maria even though he knew she was engaged to another man because he felt engaged women were “safe”. After Maria married, he started chasing after Fanny as a “game”. After Fanny rejected his proposal he ran away with Maria breaking apart her marriage to Mr. Rushmore. What kind of boy is this?? A Yucky one that’s for sure! They are both very immoral individuals that rocked and shaped the lives of everyone at Mansfield Park.

4.  Why do you think Edmund is drawn to Mary?
In the beginning Mary Crawford is described as being beautiful and charming. She probably won Edmund over with those qualities, but very early on in the novel he saw her true colors and yet he chooses to ignore the facts of her selfish/arrogant personality. She was definitely not supportive of his career choice to go into the clergy, very obsessive about money, manipulative, and extremely self centered. I was surprised that it took the whole novel for him to break things off with her.  Even though Edmund was questioning their relationship from early on, he kept going back to her, their relationship reminded me of a roller coaster (ups and downs). I’m not sure why he was still drawn to her even though he was frustrated with her. That draw he had towards her still puzzles me.     

5.  Do you think Henry actually fell in love with either Maria or Fanny, or is he more of a player? 
I do not think Henry actually fell in love with either girl, I think he was more attracted/excited for the chase and game of getting them to fall in love with him and want him.  I never got the impression that he was truly head over heels in love with either of them. 

6.  Should Fanny have given Henry a real chance? Or was she right to refuse his proposal?
She was completely 100% right to have refused his proposal. She saw the real slimy Henry, the one that was leading on and chasing after Maria at the play when he knew she was engaged to another. She knew his character was not good and she stuck to her guns when everyone was telling her she should accept his proposal.

7.  Edmund seems to always turn to Fanny for her input.  Why do you think her opinion is important to him? At what point do you think they fall in love with each other? 
I think Edmund sees Fanny as the only constant in his life.  While everyone and thing around him is in chaos, Fanny always seems to the point of reason. He knows he can trust her and that she will always have his best interest at heart. I believe Fanny falls in love with Edmund early on in the novel. I think she saw him as her only confidant/friend at Mansfield Park, which quickly grew into romantic feelings. I was a bit disappointed in their love story. Yes, I felt their love story half-way develop/grow but only from Fanny’s point of view. Austen waits until the last chapter until Edmund realizes he loves Fanny and then all of a sudden they are married. It just seemed a bit too quick for me towards the end. However, I do feel like they actually fell in love, compared to other characters in Austen novels *cough*Marianne&Col.Brandon*cough*, and I do believe that they will have their happily ever after.   

8.  How does Mansfield Park compare to the other two Austen novels we have read? Do you feel like Mansfield Park is more or less complex then Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice?
When I was reading Sense and Sensibility I remember thinking how similar the subject matter/storyline was to Pride and Prejudice, whereas Mansfield Park still has similar themes (social mobility), I fell like Austen stepped into some new territory and created a story that went more in depth.  I do feel like Mansfield Park is more complex than the other two novels we have read. This novel deals with heavier subject matter such has immorality, family dynamics, took place over a longer span of time, and the characters have more depth to them. Even with all these different elements, Mansfield Park is not as memorable as Pride and Prejudice. I’m just sayin’.  

9.  Which character did you relate most closely to in this novel and why? 
Gaahhhhh…. I am really trying to think about which character I related to the most, and to be honest, I didn’t relate to any characters in this novel. This kind of bums me out, because in the previous two novels I have always found out a little bit more about myself or I have learned something and that hasn’t been the case for this novel. In Sense and Sensibility I related to Elinor and in Pride and Prejudice I instantly admired Elizabeth Bennett and wanted to be her. But in Mansfield Park I found the characters to be way too immature, annoying, and immoral or completely dull.

10.  Do you think Mansfield Park is something of a morality tale, a story that has a sort of moral lesson in it? 
Throughout this novel, Austen touched upon several immoral situations. Sir Thomas is in a morally conflicted business of slave trade, which he realizes is immoral and causes him to re-evaluate his life. The subject matter in the play, Lovers Vow, is inappropriate due to the subject matter of the play. The whole character of Henry is immoral! He chases after women, taken or single, as if it is a game. Julia eloping with a man, which was quite scandalous for that time. In the end her family seems to forgive her and everything is right between them all. I do feel Mansfield Park is a morality tale and there are several moral lessons to be learned throughout the novel.

11.  Would you recommend this novel to a friend?
Hmmmm…. This is a tough question to answer. I really do Love, Love, Love Jane Austen. I want to shout from the roof tops read all of her novels! However, I really don’t think I would recommend this novel to a friend. There was nothing wrong with it, but it didn’t keep my interest and I couldn’t relate to the characters. This novel didn’t become a part of me like Pride and Prejudice did and even Sense and Sensibility to a certain extent. SOOOOOOOOOOO… No, I would not recommend this novel to a friend, I would shove a copy of Pride and Prejudice in their face and have them read it immediately!!!! 

Closing Thoughts:
After re-reading my answers, I feel like I came off a little harsh towards this novel. I don’t mean to sound like I completely hated it; some parts of it were very enjoyable. This novel was in the middle of the road for me. It wasn’t the worst book I ever read, but it wasn’t the best book either. I am happy to close the Mansfield Park chapter of our book club and move onto Emma!  I better start reading, Emma is a thick one!!
I can’t wait to read your responses to the questions for Mansfield.
Until next time, Happy Reading!!!!!!!!!!!!